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Bravo

Rentacoder dispute

The original bid request:

Quote:
I need a logo design for a company name.

The name is Arabian Blend.

It's a show that includes belly dancers, Arabic Drums, club atmosphere, lights etc..

I would like to see what you can come up with.

Thanks


And the replies:

Bravo wrote:
A bid in the amount of $40.00 (USD) was posted by pdBravo (the coder).
The bid was (later) accepted by Besharah0 (the buyer).


Hi

Please see the image in the link for my idea for your logo.

The logo is fully vectored and thus is able to be printed professionally at whatever size you like.  It is also a unique image (ie I made it especially for this bid) so there are no problems whatsoever with any copyright issues etc.

Let me know,

Regards,

Tony



 
Quote:
That's nice.

A few changes.

Can you try it with different fonts, ex. the font from Aladdin etc...

Make the dancer show her legs with like a scarf hanging from her skirt or something.


Thanks


Bravo wrote:
That's exactly the font I wanted to use, I didn't as most people want straight fonts on their logos Very Happy

For the dance pose you want, do you have a photo of a specific pose in mind?  If so, I can create you a vector image based on that photo to incorporate into the logo for you.

I also had a bit of a fiddle with the background colouring, it is a desert type of sunset effect I am trying to achieve.

Regards

Tony



Quote:
For the dance pose just use something that's more sexy and revealing but still classy...

I'll try to look for something.

Reply  
 


 
By Besharah0 with 4 ratings
From Ottawa, Ontario in Canada (see local date/time)
Posting # 16,763,140 on Sunday Apr 13, 2008 1:43:04 PM EDT

 
Here's a few pics..

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/10097.jpg

http://69.90.174.246/photos/displ...logo/62562/62562,1155423119,4.jpg

http://euro-quest.tripod.com/site...ance-city-cities-image-b-1001.jpg

http://www.poisestudio.com/images/photos/belly_dancer2.jpg

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6099260/i/bellydancecostumesbluesexy.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?i...z%3D1B3GGGL_enCA251CA251%26sa%3DN


Try to focus on a girl dancing rather than just standing.

Thanks

Reply  
 


 
By Besharah0 with 4 ratings
From Ottawa, Ontario in Canada (see local date/time)
Posting # 16,763,234 on Sunday Apr 13, 2008 1:55:47 PM EDT

 
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_c...y_nightclub_dancer.php?id=3095853

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_c...vector_belly_dance.php?id=4324759

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_c...3583002_bellydance.php?id=3583002

Reply  
 


 
By Besharah0 with 4 ratings
From Ottawa, Ontario in Canada (see local date/time)
Posting # 16,763,281 on Sunday Apr 13, 2008 2:01:41 PM EDT

 
Try to make the background color like this

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_c...336_arabian_sunset.php?id=1083336


Bravo wrote:
Excellent, thanks for those images...

I am much happier with the outcome of this one, I changed the dancer for one of the ones you supplied (again it is a full vector image so can be resized without loss of quality to whatever size you like - and there are no copyright issues as it is a unique image).

I had a bit of a fiddle about with it, and decided to add the mask (fade effect on the dancer), I think it improves the overall logo, though if you disagree I can of course make it back into a full image).

Also, if you let me know what sizes you want the image in, I can put it all together in a pack for you.  If you are unsure what sizes, I will do you a selection of what my experience tells me you will require.

I will also include the original (full layered) file so you can take that to your printer (if any hard copies are being made on letterheads etc).

Regards

Tony




Quote:
 
I think I will choose you to do this project.

But first, the group consists of 2-3 belly dancers, can

you make a mockup with 2 or 3 dancers.

Thanks



Bravo wrote:
 

I certainly can.

It will be later today as I am just about to head off to work, so expect something around 3pm EST or maybe a little earlier Wink

Regards

Tony



Bravo wrote:
A bid in the amount of $40.00 (USD) was posted by pdBravo (the coder).  


I wanted the symmetry here for the logo so I mirrored the (my favourite) trailing dancer and had the central dancer in a sort of 'friends' dance pose.

I think the symmetry of the overall effect blends in quite nicely with the look and feel we are trying to achieve...it evokes the emotion of desert mystery with the sexy feel of the dancing, so I am quite pleased with it.

Regards

Tony


 


Quote:
Alert: Buyer accepted bid/ completed escrow

pdBravo (the coder),
Per the detailed email you were sent, Besharah0 (the buyer) has accepted your bid for $40.00 on posting # 16,754,700 and has completed the escrowing process.

You can now start work. Please contact Besharah0 (the buyer) via the site to get the project off "on the right foot". The current deadline is 12 days. Besharah0 (the buyer), if this is not what you intended, please update the deadline on the site from your bid request control panel. pdBravo (the coder), if this is not what you belive was agreed upon, immediately inform the buyer onsite and work out the misunderstanding. If either of you has a problem you cannot resolve concerning the deadline, please notify Rent A Coder for assistance.


Monday Apr 14, 2008 4:17:11 PM EDT


 Project phase change: All funds have been escrowed. Waiting for work to be completed by pdBravo (the coder).




Bravo wrote:
By pdBravo with 2 ratings averaging  10 (Excellent)  
From Stockton, Teesside in United Kingdom (see local date/time)
Posting # 16,784,014 on Monday Apr 14, 2008 5:38:49 PM EDT


Attached File
(2,309.53 kb)  



Bravo wrote:
Included in the zip file I have sent you:

1. 100x100 version for websites (not suitable for printing)
2. 200x200 version for websites (not suitable for printing)
3. A 150dpi (dots per inch) version suitable for home printing.
4. The original, vectored, fully layered Photoshop file that professional printers will be able to use for any and all printing jobs.

If you need any more sizes etc just shout Wink

Regards

Tony



Quote:
I'm gonna need more samples from you. There's something about the logo that I'm just not liking, not sure what it is.

Can you please make me 5-6 more totally different mock ups.

The group consists of 1 arabic drum, drummer, 2-3 dancers.

Thanks

Reply  
 


 
By Besharah0 with 4 ratings
From Ottawa, Ontario in Canada (see local date/time)
Posting # 16,784,227 on Monday Apr 14, 2008 5:53:17 PM EDT

 
It has to much of a Middle Eastern feel. I need it to be more club atmospherish.




Bravo wrote:
Project phase change: All funds have been escrowed. Waiting for work to be completed by pdBravo (the coder).

The work was accepted as done and the final deliverables were sent and have been downloaded by yourself.

It was honed down over the last few days until it was completely to your liking, at which point you escrowed the funds.

For $40 I would not usually do the amount of work I have already done, without asking for '5-6' more mockups!!!

It is plainly obvious to me that you are attempting to defraud me, and defraud Rentacoder.  If you were not, you would have asked for the changes before accepting the logo.

Unless payment is released, this project will go into arbitration.


Quote:
Usually I get people to make me samples so I can know

which coder I will chose. Your samples were the best,

therefore I chose you to make me a few more.

If you don't want to make me more samples that's fine, I

can send you the 40$ as I'm not trying to defraud you.



Bravo wrote:
Wednesday Apr 16, 2008 3:22:10 PM EDT


 Mediation / arbitration opened
yvo

Half way I was already thinking: "Damn Bravo, you're doing all this for only 40 bucks." And it's dollars too, which aren't even worth that much atm. Ah well so is the pound sterling Very Happy.

What a wanker that guy. He got a fabulous logo for a discount price and still he has the nerves to ask for more. I just don't understand what goes through these people's minds :S
Bravo

$40 was his maximum accepted bid...I dont normally go that low but I figured why not.

I will post up tomorrow how the arbitration went...
u1bd2005

Bravo wrote:
I will post up tomorrow how the arbitration went...


Good luck
Bravo

Arbitration:

Quote:
Date:  Wednesday Apr 16, 2008 3:40:51 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 798,941)
From: Besharah0 (buyer) at 99.241.98.51
To: pdBravo  (coder),Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
 
# 2a) I'm not 100% satisfied with the logo the coder has designed. Therefore I need him to make me a few more samples.

Thanks


Quote:
Date:  Thursday Apr 17, 2008 10:50:15 AM (Arbitration Response Id: 799,503)
From: Tina McElroy (RAC) (Arbitrator)  
To: pdBravo  (coder)
CC: Besharah0 (buyer)
 
Tony,

Do you want to work with the buyer or do you want us to test your current work?

Tina McElroy (RAC)  


Quote:
Date:  Thursday Apr 17, 2008 12:41:43 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 799,715)
From: pdBravo (coder) at 82.16.85.90
To: Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
CC: Besharah0 (buyer)
 
The links are there for you to see how the artwork was honed in to the buyers tastes/desires.

I of course have no objection to further refining of the same logo, but I absolutely refuse to provide 5-6 completely new mockups.

Any further work on this logo I would do for free as a refinement process but alarm bells rang when as soon as the deliverables were available in the final form, a request for a full restart came in...I figured then that they could have said this before accepting the logo.

Regards

Tony  


Quote:
Date:  Thursday Apr 17, 2008 1:42:07 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 799,771)
From: Besharah0 (buyer) at 99.241.98.51
To: pdBravo  (coder),Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
 
I'm not 100% satisfied with the logo, if I was I would of sent the 40$. Usually when a designer makes a logo, he gives you at least 3-4 mock ups to chose from, not just 1.  


Quote:
Date:  Thursday Apr 17, 2008 4:29:03 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 799,919)
From: pdBravo (coder) at 82.16.85.90
To: Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
CC: Besharah0 (buyer)
 
It is absolutely clear that the buyer accepted the logo as made and deliberately didn't message with the acceptance. A message saying 'I accept you as bidder but want 5-6 mockups' would have received a reply from me saying to get another artist.

I provided my logo idea, the buyer asked for 3 refinements to the logo which I made dilligently. The buyer was happy with that and accepted it.

No message with the acceptance to me was an absolutely crystal clear total acceptance of the logo, as the precedent had been set with her asking for the refinements.

Why ask for refinements to a logo you dont like? It does not make sense at all.
What does make sense is someone trying to get out of paying for their logo by manipualtion of the system. I think this is a clear cut case of this.

You are perfectly free to follow how this went and download anything that I have made available for download, I would have thought this would have been done already and not have to ask for permission. Any permission for anything desired is hereby granted.

Whenever I look at any bid request, if I see someone wanting several mockups I simply don't bid. I have an idea and if they like it, great, if they don't like it, great....I am not about to spend hours upon hours of my time making a bucketload of logos that will never get used. I do this only as a bit of a side hobby and use money I get from artwork as money to spend on ebay giving myself little treats, the $40 is not a lot of money to me, but the principle is the principle. I do not like to be conned, and I don't like to see a legitimate business (Rentacoder) be conned also.

Regards

Tony  


Quote:
Date:  Thursday Apr 17, 2008 5:28:26 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 799,933)
From: Besharah0 (buyer) at 99.241.98.51
To: pdBravo  (coder),Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
 
There's obviously a big misunderstanding here. I can agree on sending 20$ for his time, but I will not be using this logo.


Quote:
Date:  Friday Apr 18, 2008 2:46:45 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 800,687)
From: Tina McElroy (RAC) (Arbitrator)  
To: Besharah0 (buyer),pdBravo  (coder)
 
Tony,



If you claim it if finished, I can send this to testing. Just tell me. Since this pre-deadline you still have time to work on it.

Joseph,

We can do partial completion testing to see if you claim is valid. Let me know.


Tina McElroy (RAC)



Quote:
Date:  Friday Apr 18, 2008 3:52:17 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 800,741)
From: pdBravo (coder) at 82.16.85.90
To: Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
CC: Besharah0 (buyer)
 
It is finished as far as the buyer was happy with it. I am of course still happy for any minor refinements though it has already been refined three times, so by all means send it off to wherever you desire.

Regards

Tony  


Quote:
Date:  Friday Apr 18, 2008 4:02:21 PM (Arbitration Response Id: 800,746)
From: Besharah0 (buyer) at 99.241.98.51
To: pdBravo  (coder),Tina McElroy (RAC)  (arbitrator)
 
Sure go ahead.  


Quote:
Date:  Monday Apr 21, 2008 11:01:39 AM (Arbitration Response Id: 801,795)
From: Tina McElroy (RAC) (Arbitrator)  
To: Besharah0 (buyer)
CC: pdBravo  (coder)
 

Flaw List (Id #2583) Joseph,

I have reviewed the onsite documentation and there is not enough proof from simply reading at it, to conclusively confirm (or deny) that the coder did not act in sufficient good faith to this point. Making that determination will require looking more in depth at what the coder delivered.

Since the deadline has not yet arrived you have 2 choices:

1) You can claim that the coder has not made sufficient progress to this point. We then test the deliverables versus what the coder has delivered. If we find that sufficient progress has not been made, then you would receive a refund of all funds that are still in escrow. I will warn you in advance that this type of testing will require a large amount of documentation and participation on your part because we will have to test each and every feature of the application. This is a slow process and by it's nature cannot be conducted quickly. However if this is what you wish to do, we can proceed in that manner.

2) You can choose to delay testing until the deadline arrives. Keep in mind that when an arbitration starts, the work on the project stops. So the coder may be owed the time that they missed while in arbitration. If the coder is as bad as you are alleging, then they won't be 100% finished. But since the deadline will have passed, there will be no legitimate excuse for even one non-cosmetic flaw to exist. So testing would end as soon as we could reproduce one such flaw and that would also result in a full refund to you of all funds still in escrow. This is a much quicker process and involves much less participation on your part. (I should point out that it is possible that your coder might somehow manage to complete the work 100%...but obviously this would not be bad for you either, as you'd be getting 100% of what you originally asked for, in the time frame you asked for it in.)

If you have any questions about your choices or the repercussions, please let me know. Otherwise, please let me know of your decision.

Tina McElroy (RAC)  
Zeph

thats a whole lot to read...
So I didnt read it all.  I read a lot of it though.
But i dont know...  I would have just stopped working.
This guy seems very unappreciative of your AMAZING work Bravo.
Wicked

very nice work bravo!
Bravo

Quote:
Congratulations, pdBravo! 100% of your work for http://www.RentACoder.com was received by the buyer, signed off on and accepted!

Title:Need a logo designed
Percent Accepted:100%
Amount: $34.00 credited to your account.
Total Percent Accepted (to date):100%
Description:I need a logo design for a company name.

The name is Arabian Blend.

It's a show that includes belly dancers, Arabic Drums, club atmosphere, lights etc..

I would like to see what you can come up with.

Thanks

Bid Date:4/12/2008 7:28:43 PM


The above amount has been credited to your account. All funds accumulated in your account are totalled on your chosen 'credit cut off date' and are then paid to you on or before the 7th day following it (once you meet your self-imposed minimum payout amount).
yvo

Congrats man. What a struggle for 34 bucks Razz
Bravo

I think a $75 minimum from now on
yvo

A moron filter would be useful for these websites Very Happy
Bravo

BTW I am still not happy.

In Rentacoder rulings, wherever there has been an arbitration, neither party is able to 'rate' the other.

In this case this person has been allowed to rate me (given me a 1 out of 10) spoiling my previous perfect 10 score.  I cant rate them, it wont let me.

I emailed the person (Tina) about this twice and have yet to receive a reply...over 48 hours now.
Bravo

Quote:
Tony,

I removed the rating.  If this happens there is no problem deleting the rating.  It was a neutral arbitration but he rated before the project was closed.  It is fine now.

If you have further questions, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,
Tina McElroy
u1bd2005

Bravo wrote:
Quote:
Tony,

I removed the rating.  If this happens there is no problem deleting the rating.  It was a neutral arbitration but he rated before the project was closed.  It is fine now.

If you have further questions, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,
Tina McElroy


Sorted Razz
yvo

Good to hear they sorted that. What a wanker!

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